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Category: WBAQ Archive

Seagull Outboards

With a couple of mentions of Seagull outboard motors in this Log, it is appropriate to include an article sent to me by Ian Primrose.  It comes from John Vigor’s Blog (see “Web Watch” below).  Ian said that John’s perceptive and honest writing shines through in this article about Seagull outboards although a member (or two) of the WBAQ might not agree!  To test that view, I sent the article to our resident Seagull tragic Chris Treloar, who was kind enough to provide a detailed and considered response.  So following is John Vigor’s article then Chris’ response – Ed.

“The dreaded British Seagull”  I’m still running in a new outboard motor I bought recently, and every time I pull the starter cord I’m reminded of how much outboard motors have improved over the years.  My Tohatsu 6-hp Sail-Pro single- cylinder four-stroke is not as smooth-running as a silky 1975 6-hp Evinrude twin I once owned but when I compare it with that extraordinary Rube Goldberg device known as the British Seagull, I bless every engineer and designer who contributed in any way to the improvement that is evident on the evolutionary path from Seagull to Sail-Pro. For those of you lucky enough never to have had the misfortune to own or operate a Seagull, I should explain that it was rudimentary in the extreme – a single cylinder containing a very sloppy piston, topped by a spinning disc allegedly making electricity for the spark plug.  Tacked on to one side was a simple carburettor.  The float bowl had a small button sticking out of the top that you pressed down with a finger until the whole thing flooded and overflowed with gasoline.  A spreading rainbow sheen on the water around you was your signal to wind the starter cord around the spinning disc on top and pull like mad.

It was a two-stroke, of course, and you had to mix thick, gooey engine oil in with the gasoline so that the clunky bits inside received adequate lubrication.  If I remember right, the ratio of oil to gas was 1 : 25, or about four times as much oil as modern two-strokes used before they were deemed unacceptably polluting.  The Seagull was the ultimate polluting machine.

After you had flooded the carburettor, flicked closed the crude metal slide that served as a choke, and been hit on the back of the neck by the starter cord as it came off the disc on top, there were two ways to tell if the motor had started or not.

The first was a great gurgling roar, a noise fit to wake the dead.  You could hear a Seagull coming from miles away.

The second was a great cloud of blue-white smoke rising from the water astern. That was the exhaust, which consisted of 50 percent burned gasoline and 50 percent lubricating oil just slightly singed by the bronze-age combustion process.  The exhaust added its own smear of oil to the water around the stern, of course, though smear might be too wimpish a word to describe the fearful results of a Seagull’s passage through the water.  It was often said that you couldn’t get lost if you had a Seagull.  You just followed the smoking oil streaks back home.

With that much oil in the gas, the spark plug was bound to oil up and cease functioning every 20 minutes or so. The owners of Seagulls learned to carry spare plugs and they developed heat-proof horny calluses on their finger tips from removing red-hot plugs from the cylinder head.

To be fair, there were some advantages to the Seagull.  It did make other people laugh.  And you could throw it away in a fit of rage without feeling any sorrow.  It made a dandy anchor, with all those bits sticking out”.

Chris Treloar’s response:   I find this article very interesting and would like to correct a few errors of insight.

I like Tohatsu outboards, they are my next favourite motor to the seagull so I have nothing to find fault about them.

This well written article by John Vigor has grossly misstated a lot about the infamous seagull outboard.  He was so wrong about them running on 25:1, they actually run on 10:1.

For one, the bit about the oil slick is true.  This was developed especially by the seagull outboard engineers to assist all those people in third world countries that had malaria problems to help to stem the breeding of mosquitoes.

The bit about the 2 stroke smoke is also true – it was a special ploy for the Normandy landings as it was a cheap and efficient way of putting up a smoke screen to fool the enemy.  Hence the beginning of the idea for a stealth fighter.  They were purposefully made noisy to fool the enemy that there were tanks and big machinery landing.

Anyway if it’s too loud, you’re too old.

As for the reliability, only specially trained special force commandos knew how to operate them so if they fell into enemy hands it would frustrate and fool the uninitiated into thinking the Allies weren’t very advanced with their technology.  Also the bit about the starter cord hitting the back of the head was actually a secret weapon of which the secret still cannot be divulged.

Now in all the years I have owned my Seagulls I have found them to be the absolute pinnacle of reliability, over the years mine has never let me down – I mean never ever.  Except once (or was it twice) when the carby tried to fall off.  Another time when the nut holding the flywheel on came loose and it tried to come off.  Oh yes, the time when the mount for the fuel tank broke and I had to tie it on with a piece of rope.  And of course when the water tube came undone and fell off the cylinder – but I continued on using the pee bucket as an emergency engine cooler by pouring water (not pee) over the cylinder.  And not to mention the plug lead falling off numerous times.  Plus the clamp holding the exhaust coming loose and falling down.  And the 2 bolts holding the gear box on coming loose and the gearbox tried to fall off.  Ah yes, and the vibrations causing a shackle on the main sheet to vibrate loose and fall over the side and also something fell off the rigging once.  I never did know what that was.  But apart from these minor and completely forgivable indiscretions, the Seagull is absolutely reliable.

So I personally think if John Vigor wishes to ever try to say bad things about the mighty seagull again he should contact me for proper facts.

Yours truly, Chris Treloar

Posted in WBAQ Archive |

President’s Notes

Once again the Caloundra Regatta has come and gone. Once again it was a great weekend. Better than last year?  Well, we certainly had better weather and a bigger collection of boats.  My wife, Marian, and I enjoyed the paddle up Bells Creek on the Saturday but were happy to accept a lift back on Ed’s (starting a new life as a motor boat) 16ft skiff.  At the end of the weekend Marian said it was one of friendliest lot of people she had been with.  Ron’s full report appears later in the Log, but if you missed it this year don’t miss out next year.

Some points of interest noticed over the weekend.

  1. Please do not tie up to navigation markers, the people who maintain these will get very sad and will want to come over and share their sadness with you, which could be expensive.
  2. Trailers – there are regulations about over- hangs and when red flags and reflexives are required.  I suggest you find out and make sure your trailer and load complies. For a start, search the Queensland Transport website for “Projecting Loads
  3. Bungs – put your bungs in BEFORE you leave the boat ramp. People have been booked for driving off with their bungs out; it’s to do with unsecured loads. Yes well, whether you like it or not, it’s the law and easy to comply with.
  4. Life jackets – there are new codes out for life jackets.  Get to know them so you comply Life Jackets.   Also where you store your life jackets must now be clearly labelled.  Should you be pulled up by our friends, they will ask the crew (not the master) where the life jackets and safety gear are stored. Don’t leave your life jackets in the plastic bags they came in, have them ready. It’s a lot easier to put your life jacket on at your leisure than in a blind panic!

I’ll be taking leave (without pay) for a while and Mark Fort has kindly agreed to step into my role – thanks, Mark.

Jon Elcock.

Posted in WBAQ Archive |

Notes of visit to Ross Lillistone

Introduction.
On 23rd June, 19 WBAQ members attended a site visit to Ross Lillistone? s establishment at Esk.  Of those Ian Kirk and Peter Fox from Macleay Island and Bruce Wollstein from Coochiemudlo Island caught the 0600 ferry to get a ride with Phil Brown from Victoria Point.  The group assembled at Fernvale and arrived at Ross? place at about 1000 hrs. During the course of the day, Ross discussed various topics, passed on numerous tips and conducted some demonstrations.  The following abbreviated notes, in no particular order, are a summation of the information I collected on the day.  I may have missed some.

Mayfly 14 sailing boat .  This is a Jim Michalak design.  Although it is a simple flat bottom boat and appears to be simple to build Ross found that it was difficult to bend in the bottom near the transom where the rocker is increased.  The boat performs very well.  It has an external pivoting leeboard similar to Ian Kirk’s boat “Pug”.

Kadoka ply, from PNG.  Similar to Gaboon, stronger but softer.

Taped joints.  Use double bias glass in 400, 425 or 450 gram, 100 or 150 wide as specified, inside over fillet joint.  But may be difficult to get as it is cut from 90m long full width rolls.  Double bias has threads running at 45 degrees so all threads cross the joint.  In tape only half the threads cross the joint, the remainder run parallel.

Does fillet first then when it is just starting to go off, add tape over and wet out.  Wet out past edge then go over edge with a flat tool to smooth down.

Internal painting.  Does not epoxy saturate the whole boat internally.  One coat of epoxy primer is applied which is generally almost sanded off, then paints with a single-pack paint.  The reasoning is that sooner or later the internal epoxy will crack somewhere or be penetrated and if water gets in it cannot get out.  Similar to a dry sponge wrapped in Gladwrap.  Put a small hole in the Gladwrap and let in a drop of water, the sponge will never dry out.  Prefers to use a paint that will breathe. The exception is inside buoyancy tanks.

Inside buoyancy tanks.  Uses epoxy saturation and also coats with epoxy primer.

Screws,  Uses square drive silicone bronze screws “Yushung” brand available from Brass and Bronze Fasteners

Epoxy.  “All marine epoxy is good”.  Ross currently uses West System epoxy but only because he wound up with a 1:5 industrial pump.  He was using BoatCoat but couldn’t get an industrial 1:2 pump, so got a 1:5 industrial pump from West System with a view to modifying to a 1:2 ratio to use with BoatCoat.  But after he purchased it, found that the ratio could not be altered so had to use West System (1:5) epoxy.

His experience is that all epoxies have some form of blush (even BoatCoat), but it is not necessary to remove blush if a wet on wet application is used.  In the summer that may be after 2 hours and in winter may be after 5 hours.  Blush can be removed by washing with just water, then need to sand for a bond.  Sanding is not needed for a wet on wet application.  Ross will work to 2am  if necessary to get the correct wet on wet application, in preference to having to remove blush and sand.  Also, wet on wet gives a better bond.

Always be accurate with quantities and always mix well.  Epoxy failures are always either incorrect quantities or not enough mixing.

Filler.  Uses West Sytem 410 Microlite sanding filler for sanding and fairing locations.   Also thinks the West System structural filler is a better product as it has fibres and has better non-sag qualities for less filler.  The BoatCoat filler is very rough on edge tools.

Posted in WBAQ Archive |

Haul Out Anchoring System

I was asked recently to describe the above after my demonstration at our July meeting. It goes like this:

  • Set up anchor, chain and line approx 10 meters long, attach float and pulley near other end, but leaving room to tie to stem.
  • Anchor as normal. Carry haulout line in a bucket with both ends showing.
  • Attach one end to stern, take the other end forward, outside all rigging, thread through pulley and attach it to cleat after releasing anchor line.
  • Paddle back to beach, line will unroll. Plant stern anchor and tie off line. You now have a
  • continuous loop.

To pull boat out, pull one side, to return pull other side, and tie off as required.

If you prefer the line attached to stern, could also be tied to the stem, after planting beach anchor, this allows the boat to swing to the tide.

Photographs and another explanation can be found in Wooden Boat Magazine’s 2009 Small Boats.

Posted in WBAQ Archive |

Site Visit – Peter Saggers, Boatbuilder

On Saturday afternoon, 8th March, six WBA members enjoyed a very informative couple of hours with Peter Saggers at his shed at Sheldon. Peter is building a 45 foot cruising sailing boat.

The construction method is cold moulded, triple planked. The first skin is longitudinal, 16 mm thick, the second skin is diagonal at approx right angles to the slope of the bow, 8 mm thick, and the third skin at right angles to the second, also 8 mm thick. Planks are generally about 150 wide. At the time of our visit, most of the first skin was in place and partly faired.

Peter described his method to us.

For the first skin, planks are tapered in width. This is to avoid building up stress in the plank by having to contend with edge set. Place the first plank (a parallel sided board) at the sheer. Measure up (say) 5 full plank widths at the frame of maximum girth and temporarily fix a straight edged plank at that point, laying naturally on the frames. The natural lay will cause it to slope closer to the sheer plank at each end. Measure the separation at each frame and divide by 5 (i.e. the number of planks in the first lift). Use those dimensions to set out and pre cut planks (no edge bevel). All planks will then lie naturally on the frames with minimum stress and twist.

Peter has a bench set up for pre-cutting planks. It has the outer edge dead straight, and has cross pieces set out at spacing to match the frame spacing. A fairing batten is set up on the crosspieces using the dimensions calculated above plus the off set from the power saw blade to the edge guide. All ten planks (5 a side) are then cut using a hand held power saw and the same set-up.

The following are other notes of Peter’s methods.

Scarfing – Peter uses a docking saw to get a 10:1 bevel, cut with the plank on edge and held in a suitable jig. Planks are laid out and scarfed in a stack. Each scarf is aligned by feel (to confirm that there is the correct overlap), then held together (to stop slipping apart with 2 panel pins, not driven fully home and with the heads snipped off. The stack is clamped and cured. After curing, panel pins are removed. Peter uses epoxy for scarfs but could use resorcinol. He uses epoxy because the boat is to be clear finished internally, and resorcinol stains the timber. The first skin is also edge glued with epoxy.

The second skin is face and edge glued with resorcinol, stapled with ss staples (left in) and temporary screws where necessary to maintain a close fit for good clamping pressure. He then fairs perfectly at the end of the second skin, finishing with a long board.

The third skin is face and edge glued with resorcinol and ss staples, aligned with the grain of the timber, and set slightly below the surface. Wipe over with metho to bring up the grain before final fairing.

You will recall the various methods we have been shown to spile and then fit the diagonal planks on the little boat we have partly cold moulded at the Museum. Peter carries out this task with elegant simplicity. He uses a router to directly cut the diagonal planks without separately spiling. A router is set up with 2 pins on the face to act as a guide. The line of the pins is slightly outside the diameter of the cutter. Call the distance between the line of the guide pins to the opposite face of the cutter D. The pins project slightly less than the thickness of the material used for the diagonal planking. Each diagonal plank has one straight face and one face cut to fit against its neighbor. Lay the new plank naturally on the mould, such that its maximum distance from the straight edge of the previous plank is D (this can be quickly established by using a spacer block), and temporarily hold it in position. Place the router pins against the existing plank and run the router the full length of the new plank, cutting a face which is exactly parallel to the existing plank edge. Remove the temporary fixings from the new plank and slide it up to the existing plank. One cut, dead accurate, right first time – brilliant.

Other suggestions from Peter:

• Use machines as much as possible.

• Use jigs to reduce repetitive work and setting out.

• In internal fit-out, use a small number of standard radii in curves for openings, etc. They can be cut with the router mounted on a base board with holes for pins at the appropriate radii. This simplifies forming the opening and also prefabricating trim for the opening.

• Use a square pad and square sheet of sandpaper (approx 300 x300 for the scale of his boat) in an angle grinder for bulk fairing – it does not cut in at the edges as a circular pad and paper will. (Final accurate fairing is done with a long board.)

• When building in strip plank, after completing the lay up of the hull, bog but don’t fair in the inverted position. Turn the hull and complete the internal structural fitting out, then turn the hull again and fair externally. If faired before internal fitout, minor unfairness will appear in the external fairing as a result of the internal fitout.

• Glues – Peter uses resorcinol wherever he can, but it needs a close fit and clamping pressure. He uses epoxy elsewhere. Can become allergic to epoxy over a time. E.g. uses resorcinol to laminate the floors.

Peter’s general lesson on boat building: “The objective of today’s work is to make tomorrow’s work as easy as possible” i.e. plan ahead, do accurate work so that future work is not made more difficult.

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Tech Tips – Petrol for Marine Engines

As some of you are aware I work for Caltex manufacturing fuels and I have been asked by WBAQ members what is happening with Unleaded Petrol as there is concern that it may come off the market entirely due to Government legislation.

I have asked Caltex’s marketing for some direction especially in relation to boat motors.

The current legislation proposed for QLD is a 5% mandate, with no ban on the sale of ULP.

Based on that, sites may sell both or just one or the other, ULP or E10. An alternative to E10 is Vortex 95 or 98, which would be suitable for marine engines. We did do a press release to NSW Boating Associations which they used for communication to their members, however, the proposed legislation is slightly different in QLD. The press release NSW is included for info.

Choose the right fuel to get the best performance from your boat.

January 19, 2010 – Environmentally friendly Bio E10 Unleaded fuel is suitable for most petrol vehicles, however it can cause significant issues for some boats.

In the interests of promoting the use of cleaner, greener, locally produced fuels, the NSW and QLD State Governments are taking steps to ensure the broader use of biofuels. In NSW, regular unleaded petrol is being phased out and replaced with an ethanol-blended fuel – e.g. Bio E10 Unleaded, which is petrol blended with up to 10% ethanol. Premium grade unleaded petrol without ethanol will continue to be available at your usual outlets. Although the environmentally friendly Bio E10 Unleaded is perfectly suitable for road vehicles, it can cause significant issues for boats. Some recently manufactured boats have been designed for use with E10, but always remember to check with your engine manufacturer for compatibility first.

Bio E10 Unleaded – What to expect

When used under normal boating conditions, the ethanol in Bio E10 Unleaded can cause issues for boat owners:

The condensation from your petrol tank can cause the ethanol to separate from the petrol, which can lead to ignition difficulties and ultimately engine damage.

The solvent properties of Bio E10 Unleaded dissolve and weaken the fibreglass tanks, making it prone to leaks.

It may cause problems for carburettors, rubber fuel lines, fittings, seals, and filtration systems.

If any spillage occurs, the ethanol will cause the paintwork to blister.

Choose Caltex Vortex Premium Fuels for your boat

To ensure your boat performs at its best, we recommend using either Caltex Vortex 95 or 98 Premium Unleaded fuels. Unlike regular unleaded, Caltex Vortex Premium Fuels are designed to clean your engine by removing performance inhibiting deposits from critical parts of your engine when used regularly. This results in more power, better acceleration and increased fuel economy for your boat. Vortex 98 Premium Unleaded also combines the highest octane grade to give your boat maximum performance potential.

For more information visit www.caltex.com.au

Contact: Mabelle Reyes, Biofuels Marketing Manager, P: 02 9250 5652, E: mreyes@caltex.com.au

Posted in WBAQ Archive |

Book Review – The Nature of Boats – Dave Gerr

Subtitled “Insights and Esoterica for the Nautically Obsessed”.

Well the subtitle describes it all, though the word “Essentialia” could well have been included. In this encyclopaedic book Dave Gerr has set out to inform us of just about everything we should basically know about the structure and usage of our boats, possibly with a primary aim for those contemplating a new boat or improvements to an existing one. Not trying to make naval architects and engineers of the reader, but to arm him or her with enough essential knowledge and formulas to be able to make calculated assessments of all sorts of essential aspects about a vessel. All in a chatty, non-eggheaded non-academic style that makes for a thoroughly easily read and understood book.

How many people will it hold ? How many horsepower does a sail generate ?

How thick should the hull be ? How do you work out displacement? or hull area?

or propellor pitch? or where the centre of effort should be?

or how big a rudder you’ll need?

In an unusual style, Gerr opens the book with discussions of twelve entirely different boats varying from Dutch Botters to an 8 ft kids’ paddle boat. Not for any practical reason, just to get the reader in the groove. He then gets into the real stuff, starting with boat size, shape and style, then goes into details on engines, electricity, sailing theory, construction, ergonomics, and ending with steering. There’s plenty of simple formulas for working out answers to all those questions that are important to getting the best out of our craft. WBA members will especially relate to chapter 47: “Believe it or not, Wood is Best”.

This is an ideal bedside reading book, and having read it from cover to cover, you’ll need to keep on opening it again and again to get some detail about your boat, or your next one, or just for dreaming.

Highly recommended.

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Weighing Your Boat

The following article was first published in the Log in April 2003. It is repeated here for the benefit of members who have joined us since then.

Here’s an interesting one. It is taken from an article by John Wright, which appeared in Practical Boat Owner No. 134, February 1978. It details a method of weighting your boat (on the trailer) without access to a public weighbridge. Equipment required is a tape measure and a spring balance or the bathroom scales. I’ll let John Wright explain:

“The trailer is used like the Roman steelyard, but with the unknown weight being moved instead of the known one. In the normal trailing position on level ground, I measured the downward pressure on the hitch, and also the distance from this to the trailer axle. “I then moved my boat back a few inches until the pressure on the hitch was upwards. I measured the upward pressure and the distance I had moved the boat. Provided that both

pressures are measured with the hitch the same distance above the ground, then the weight of the boat is equal to the sum of the two pressures multiplied by the length from hitch to axle divided by the distance the boat has been moved.

Mathematicians can easily work out this simple equation [W=(p1 + p2)(L/d)] and will realise that since the relationships are linear, various unwanted constants like the trailer moment are eliminated.

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Batteries

During the discussion following Mark’s talk at the November meeting, Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries were mentioned, with the comment that their enclosure does not have to be ventilated, and that they can be installed in any orientation, even upside down.

By coincidence, I came across the following passage in a book by Collyn Rivers titled “The Campervan & Motorhome Book”: “Solid-gel and AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries withstand faster charging and deeper discharging than deep-cycle batteries but they are still more expensive on an effective amp/hr basis. “Note that their manufacturers’ previous advice regarding ventilation and orientation has been recently drastically revised. Housing must now be fully ventilated to the atmosphere. Orientation is still as one wishes (i.e. on the base, sides, or ends – but not, as previously claimed, upside down).”

I have bolded the conflicting parts. If you are proposing to install an AGM battery, it would be wise to confirm with the manufacturer their requirements regarding ventilation and orientation. Actually The Campervan & Motorhome Book is an interesting read for us boaties, especially if you are looking to set up a small boat for limited liveaboard. Collyn River’s emphases on keeping it simple, checking the weight and weight distribution, are all applicable to small boats. I tracked the book down on the recommendation of an acquaintance who shares my interest in alternative technologies, by searching the BCC library catalogue on Collyn Rivers – Author. This book, and the companion book “Motorhome Electrics & Caravans too” (concentrating on the electrical installation) are two of an impressive list.

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